Author Topic: Do the MFX suck ass?  (Read 4635 times)

Offline Waxdat

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2020, 09:30:48 am »
Probably all of those things can be attained at least to some degree.  Not all of those things will be easy to implement and some will take time to set up. You I must think outside the box though! There will be some resampling on some things. Not all of the filters are the same. Partial edit filter is not the same as MFX filters. Not all of the MFX filters are the same either. You literally have to go into each MFX that has a filter and turn off all the blocks except for the filter. Then do a comparison. Some filters are more aggressive than others. Sometimes I use just 1 FX block in a MFX. You will learn a ton by experimenting. You will find work arounds that lead to other things. You gotta put the time in though.

Offline Waxdat

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2020, 12:07:58 pm »
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What FX are you trying to achieve?

I wish there were grain manipulation, BPM loopers, stutterers, more sensitive filters, better tonal adjustment to distortions, DJFX (scratch sim like on SP-404), humanizers & step filters (like on MC-909), a slicer with variable patterns. BPM sync on more FX, BPM sync autopan (there isn't one right?), a warmer chorus like on the 404. Just a bunch of stuff Waxdat.

BPM sync auto pan?   Grain manipulation, loopers, stutters, scratch FX, slicers with variable patterns, humanizer are a go! Step filter??? Not sure what you mean. Warmer chorus? Probably.
 I would have to sit down with you and show you how I go about some of these things. Bottom line is , they can be done to some varying degree. You may or may not like how some of them sound but they can be done if you think your way thru the problem.

Offline SMUDGE

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2020, 01:09:45 pm »
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What FX are you trying to achieve?

I wish there were grain manipulation, BPM loopers, stutterers, more sensitive filters, better tonal adjustment to distortions, DJFX (scratch sim like on SP-404), humanizers & step filters (like on MC-909), a slicer with variable patterns. BPM sync on more FX, BPM sync autopan (there isn't one right?), a warmer chorus like on the 404. Just a bunch of stuff Waxdat.

BPM sync auto pan?   Grain manipulation, loopers, stutters, scratch FX, slicers with variable patterns, humanizer are a go! Step filter??? Not sure what you mean. Warmer chorus? Probably.
 I would have to sit down with you and show you how I go about some of these things. Bottom line is , they can be done to some varying degree. You may or may not like how some of them sound but they can be done if you think your way thru the problem.

Step Filter is an SP-555 & an MC-909 effect. Each approaches it differently because of the control layout. I couldn't find an example on YouTube. I hope I'm being specific enough with this. Aside from stuttering, looping, and grain, the bulk of what I mentioned are on the MC and SP-404/555 which were out at the same time as the MV. I really don't see how you can squeeze any of them out of the MV aside from maybe a more interesting chorus. If you have a genuine interest and have the time, I and I'm sure others would love to see some vids on the MFX on your channel. Please only do it if you want to explore them for your own sake, though. We all have our prerogatives.
****************
Like I said, if anyone understands what MIDI if any is being transmitted from the Control Knobs please let me know. I find no documentation on them. If I could get more real-time expression out of the VS's FX then the MV's pitiful selection wouldn't be a biggie. Thanks for the encouragement Waxdat.

Offline Waxdat

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2020, 01:51:33 pm »
Explain to me what the step filter does.

Offline SMUDGE

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2020, 03:40:01 pm »
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Explain to me what the step filter does.
You bet. It's like a slicer but instead of audio on/off in steps (4 note, 8 note, 16 etc) it applies a filter in steps. The SP has filter amount control, step increment control, and 16 variations in different patterns (3 control knobs on the SP). The MC has much more options since it has an an actual LCD screen with a menu, and you can use the 8X2 channel faders to create the step pattern, but it's still the same basic idea.

Offline keefaz

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2020, 03:57:15 pm »
For synced autopan, there is a way to do it without FX and with great controls: using LFO
In partial edit > SMT you set sample Pan to LFO+ (or LFO- depending on which side you want to pan first)
In partial edit > LFO set rate to tempo and Pan to a value (positive or negative again depending on which side you want to pan first)

I think it has great controls because as you can choose LFO wave form, it will autopan smoothly or more aggressively depending on the curve
That plus the initial pan side adjustment, plus the delay time (to delay starting of autopan) etc

Offline Waxdat

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2020, 04:13:07 pm »
Right off the top of my head you can take a loop and slice it in steps. 1/4 note, 1/8 note, 16th note for example. Now step record into sequence how you sliced them. 1/4 note or 1/8 note or 16th note. Now go into partial edit and adjust the filter of each slice by an even amount for example -8 -6 -4 - 2
0 +2 +4 +6 +8. Or you could use one of the LFOS, set a speed 0-127 or lock it to a note length and use one of the LFO shapes like sine, square or random. Then set the filter frequency range for each slice. I think the range is -64 to +64. Or you could set a MFX to a filter and record a CC knob as you sweep the filter. These changes could be edited in the event editor screen so that they happen at even quantize points for example 1/8 notes. I’m almost sure that there is even some type of filter that is bpm synced in one of the MFX that you could use as well. You could even use all three methods at once to give you some real freaky random results. It’s all about experimenting.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 04:17:25 pm by Waxdat »

Offline Waxdat

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2020, 09:24:13 pm »
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For synced autopan, there is a way to do it without FX and with great controls: using LFO
In partial edit > SMT you set sample Pan to LFO+ (or LFO- depending on which side you want to pan first)
In partial edit > LFO set rate to tempo and Pan to a value (positive or negative again depending on which side you want to pan first)

I think it has great controls because as you can choose LFO wave form, it will autopan smoothly or more aggressively depending on the curve
That plus the initial pan side adjustment, plus the delay time (to delay starting of autopan) etc

Bingo!

Offline SMUDGE

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2020, 03:55:22 pm »
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Right off the top of my head you can take a loop and slice it in steps. 1/4 note, 1/8 note, 16th note for example. Now step record into sequence how you sliced them. 1/4 note or 1/8 note or 16th note. Now go into partial edit and adjust the filter of each slice by an even amount for example -8 -6 -4 - 2
0 +2 +4 +6 +8. Or you could use one of the LFOS, set a speed 0-127 or lock it to a note length and use one of the LFO shapes like sine, square or random. Then set the filter frequency range for each slice. I think the range is -64 to +64. Or you could set a MFX to a filter and record a CC knob as you sweep the filter. These changes could be edited in the event editor screen so that they happen at even quantize points for example 1/8 notes. I’m almost sure that there is even some type of filter that is bpm synced in one of the MFX that you could use as well. You could even use all three methods at once to give you some real freaky random results. It’s all about experimenting.

That sounds like a nightmare but it would work. Here's the thing: There's gotta be a formula for figuring out the exact chop point for each step in a sample of a given length. Figure that shit out and this method would be killer, and I mean possibly suicidal.

Let's see, a sample of 4 beats length divides into quarter notes of 22050 duration at 3 chop points. The same sample divides into eighth notes of 11025 duration. And further into sixteenth notes of 5512 duration.

So say I wanted the step filter pattern to be two quarter notes, a dotted quarter note, and one eighth note.
The first chop point would be 22050, the second would be 44100, the third would be 33075.

This method could either be fun, or I might end up like Don Music on Sesame Street banging my head into the MV, which somebody needs to turn into a GIF now that I think of it.

What else?


Offline Waxdat

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2020, 06:31:56 pm »
keyboardwaves.com/bpm-ms-samples-calculator/

Offline SMUDGE

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2020, 07:16:26 pm »
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keyboardwaves.com/bpm-ms-samples-calculator/

That's crazy.

I forgot to say it was at 120 BPM.

What about step ring modulator? Would that require resampling with MFX or can it be done in partial edit?


Offline Waxdat

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2020, 08:11:14 pm »
I would need to hear an example of how it sounded on something else. I would have to do some experimenting to see if I could pull that off. I would probably start will running the sample thru the bass synth. Jacking up the VCA volume to 100 and adding in the external input into ring modulation. Record the CC knob sweeping the X mod knob. Stuff like that. First place I would look is in the bass synth MFX.

Offline SMUDGE

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2020, 11:34:01 am »
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I would need to hear an example of how it sounded on something else. I would have to do some experimenting to see if I could pull that off. I would probably start will running the sample thru the bass synth. Jacking up the VCA volume to 100 and adding in the external input into ring modulation. Record the CC knob sweeping the X mod knob. Stuff like that. First place I would look is in the bass synth MFX.

The MC also has step flanger and step phaser which are not on the SPs I mentioned, although the 555 has slicer+flang. Like the step ring mod, they cut in and out according to the step pattern. It's just your average ring mod, so picture it similar to the step filter only with ring modulation applied in an off/on pattern. The MV chopping technique to achieve the step effect adds an element of variety which isn't present on the MC & 555 without manually sweeping the FX in real time (although the MC will bake the sweep in).

Isn't there a way to chop the audio phrase in the sequencer the way you want it to be and make each segment independent so that each filter can be independently adjusted? That would be a lot faster than the auto chop technique and inputting the phrase via a patch. Forgive my ignorance if this is a no brainer. It seems like that's a much more intuitive method of step filtering.




Offline Waxdat

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2020, 04:30:49 pm »
Kinda of confused by the question. You can manually slice in the midi patch section. You don’t have to auto chop.

Offline SMUDGE

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Re: Do the MFX suck ass?
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2020, 04:42:42 pm »

Ok, I mean slicing an audio phrase on the sequencer page, making tiny cuts to simulate slicing, creating independent sections that way then adjusting filter to each individually within their sample parameter pages. Something or other about creating independent audio clips? It seems like that sort of workflow would be easier than the one you are describing, editing a sample within the sample edit parameters, auto chopping or slicing or whatever to simulate a step filter pattern.
Am I wrong in thinking this is possible?