Author Topic: MV-8800 vs MPC JJOS  (Read 3435 times)

Offline SMUDGE

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MV-8800 vs MPC JJOS
« on: September 04, 2019, 10:58:49 pm »
Hey guys,
To you MPC heads, what would you all think about the workflow/usefulness of upgrading my MPC 2500 to the latest JJOS vs what I can already do with the 8800?
I mainly use the 2500 as a better sequencer/sampler for my MC-909. I use the MV for everything else.
What do you think? Upgrade?
SMUDGE

Offline dokbrown

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Re: MV-8800 vs MPC JJOS
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2019, 09:41:43 am »
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I would only upgrade if there are explicit features that you really need for your music. 
   I use the MV when I need time stretching  / comprehensive FX.

Offline SMUDGE

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Re: MV-8800 vs MPC JJOS
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2019, 01:32:03 pm »
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I would only upgrade if there are explicit features that you really need for your music. 
   I use the MV when I need time stretching  / comprehensive FX.

I installed the free 2500 JJOS just to see what it was like. The file navigation is better and there is an additional Program screen. I haven't experimented with sample editing yet. I usually don't give a damn about time stretching on MPCs or the MV because I use Serato and Ableton for finishing projects and I do it there. I really like just changing the speed (via PITCH) of a sample to fit the project and I use the MPCs that way almost exclusively. I agree the MV's time stretch is easier to access, but I'd say not necessarily better than the MPCs I have.
I was using the 2500 to slave an MC-909, but after installing JJ I slaved the 909 to an MPC 5000 and slaved a Doepfer Dark Energy/Time combo to the 2500. We'll see how that works. Either way, the 909's sequencer had to remain accessible for the MC's MV-esque groove templates and the arpeggiator. Sequencing editing is too primitive on the 909 to use it standalone. It's a real chore compared to an MPC or MV workflow. I wonder if the original MV's sequencer was anything like the MC-909's. It's a pain in the ass to edit compared to the MV and MPC's.

The truth is I'm trying to justify having 2 MPCs, given the total number of MIDI outs and the amount of gear I could slave to them, and given that I have an MV which is a slightly different animal when it gets down to it. I bought the 5000 new and before I could upgrade the OS (which makes or breaks it in my book) the pad sensors crapped out. It also buzzed and the OS froze all the time. I shelved it and got a 2500 new/old stock. Wasn't satisfied with it and got a used MV. Dug out the 5000 on a whim and fixed the sensors with a pocket knife and upgraded the OS which killed the buzzing for some reason, so here I am.

The combos I use at the present configuration is this:
MPC 5000 > MC-909
MPC 2500 > Doepfer Combo
MV-8800 > Korg M3
All units can be accessed by the same MIDI controllers. They are not all on the same MIDI clock, but they each are a distinct voice when manually sync'ed, which works for me.

The MV is a "deep" machine. Much deeper than either of the 2 MPCs I own. The MPCs are far more immediate though. I can easily get bogged down in the partial edit options in the MV whereas on the same project I could get in and get out on the MPCs, particularly the 5000, which with OS 2.0 is near and dear to my heart now after a long absence in a case in the closet.
I'm curious to know how much of the MV's "depth" equals actual musical potential.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 01:44:56 pm by SMUDGE »

Offline keefaz

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Re: MV-8800 vs MPC JJOS
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2019, 02:05:34 pm »
That's true, technical depht doesn't equal to musicality, but it can help

For example in partial edit for a hi hat sound, I like to slow down the amp attack, then I turn velo T1 (velocity attack time) to like +30, set velocity type to 2 and set curve sensitivity to like +40. This adds some movement to hi hat while playing with velocity pads

Also for bass, I like to play with filter envelope and filter cutoff key follow, along with the ability to adjust envelope depht that brings really some control to the sound

I got the MV long time after owning a E-mu e4xt sampler that has much more features in patch edit so I am not too terrified by the MV depth in partial edit actually
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 02:09:02 pm by keefaz »

Offline SMUDGE

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Re: MV-8800 vs MPC JJOS
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2019, 03:02:20 pm »
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That's true, technical depht doesn't equal to musicality, but it can help

For example in partial edit for a hi hat sound, I like to slow down the amp attack, then I turn velo T1 (velocity attack time) to like +30, set velocity type to 2 and set curve sensitivity to like +40. This adds some movement to hi hat while playing with velocity pads

Also for bass, I like to play with filter envelope and filter cutoff key follow, along with the ability to adjust envelope depht that brings really some control to the sound

I got the MV long time after owning a E-mu e4xt sampler that has much more features in patch edit so I am not too terrified by the MV depth in partial edit actually

By bogged down I didn't mean to imply I'm frozen in fear of editing the partial.
 :o
I'm not saying you're doing this, but you've reminded me that there is a mystique about the MV that has been intentionally or unintentionally perpetuated by none other than the guys who developed it in which the MV is an evolution of the MPC, and that seems to be taken by most MV users (that bother to post on the subject) that they are somehow accomplishing things on the MV that you couldn't on the MPC. While this is fair to say technically speaking, it also depends on the type of music you're making. About all of the music I hear on the MV on YouTube and on here is hip hop or EDM. I wonder if your high hat trick couldn't be accomplished on an MPC with the right filter/OSC combo. If not an exact duplicate, but once set in a mix would it really make a difference in regard to the final product? Waxdat has by far presented the deepest dig into the MV. He's the exception not the rule however, it seems, and even still his examples are all hip hop. The Midi Maniac's examples are more basic but useful, and they are all EDM.

I eventually had to get Serato and Ableton because of the limitations of the gear I owned like the MV, MPC, MC and the Roland VS. I was unable to finish a project with satisfactory results. I think letting go of that mystique was a big step in moving on to other newer operating systems, and in doing so only helped deepen my appreciation for the older ones.

On the sales end, Roland in particular seems to be catering to the low expectations and perhaps the low skills of the average MV/MPC/MC/SP user, which is why to me programs like Ableton Live shine so brightly, even if on average they're still being used for some form of dance music.

Offline keefaz

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Re: MV-8800 vs MPC JJOS
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2019, 05:42:12 am »
Hey I just wanted to share a bit of my view on partial edit, I find it usefull but I haven't tried all the functions yet, I got the MV recently I am still in discovering phase.

I don't know anything about MPC 2500/5000 I just played with a MPC60 that a friend lend to me at some times. Yes it could have equivalent features the MV has in partial edit.

The hi hat tip just adds sofness in attack when pad is played lightly and shorts attack when playing hard, kind of trying to replicate real life movement in some way, so I don't think it apply to only hip hop or EDM.

You know, I think it's natural for musician to see a part of mystic in their instrument, how many times you got something that sound so nice just by accident, I mean when you couldn't have anticipated this, like a magic moment

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Re: MV-8800 vs MPC JJOS
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2019, 06:02:03 am »
I do the same on a lot of drums sounds. Even curve type 3 with sensitivity up +63, and T2 to zero on hi-hats.
And I dial in some 'analog feel' in the main patch to add a little randomness.

Offline SMUDGE

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Re: MV-8800 vs MPC JJOS
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2019, 01:05:26 pm »
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Hey I just wanted to share a bit of my view on partial edit, I find it usefull but I haven't tried all the functions yet, I got the MV recently I am still in discovering phase.

I don't know anything about MPC 2500/5000 I just played with a MPC60 that a friend lend to me at some times. Yes it could have equivalent features the MV has in partial edit.

The hi hat tip just adds sofness in attack when pad is played lightly and shorts attack when playing hard, kind of trying to replicate real life movement in some way, so I don't think it apply to only hip hop or EDM.

You know, I think it's natural for musician to see a part of mystic in their instrument, how many times you got something that sound so nice just by accident, I mean when you couldn't have anticipated this, like a magic moment

I think where I'm coming from might not be fair to the MV regarding editing drum partials in particular, because when I want human feel/dynamics on drums I just record my acoustic kit or use my Alesis MIDI kit as the controller sometimes paired with a Boss DR-880. 9 times out of 10 when I use the MV/MPC pads to record drums I bang them out at fixed velocity and edit it afterwards either in the MV or on the sound module. I find that if I record with fixed off by the time I get other instruments in the mix the drums are half buried and I have to go in and do more editing than I would had I recorded at fixed in the first place. And I hardly ever use drum samples as partials. There's more overall control for me in the drum's native sound bank, be it M3 or what have you. The only exception is the DJ-808's kits which might record straight in as a sample.

mystique (n.)
1891, "atmosphere of mystery and veneration," from French mystique "a mystic; mystical," from Latin mysticus


Perhaps figuring out the flaws and limitations of a device kills the mystery. Like I said, moving on to more advanced systems made me appreciate the MV (and MPC 5000) even more.

Offline SMUDGE

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Re: MV-8800 vs MPC JJOS
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2019, 11:53:56 am »
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I would only upgrade if there are explicit features that you really need for your music. 
   I use the MV when I need time stretching  / comprehensive FX.

I've had a few sessions now with the free 2500 JJOS and I definitely prefer it to the Akai 2.0. The improved file architecture, naming, and wave editing have sped up my workflow. Chopping is much faster. The $$$ JJOSXL has a mono looper and pitch shift on input which looks interesting. None of the improvements compare to the MV-8800 OS however, even though I still think the 2500 is much quicker to use even if it isn't as deep.

Anyone with JJOSXL on a 2500 I'd love to hear how it compares to the 8800 workflow.