Author Topic: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware  (Read 19603 times)

Offline kneelo

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2019, 01:04:30 am »
As it is, I'm worried that any day my MV is going to say "i'm sorry dave, i can't do that".
it's too powerful already. It needs features removed, not added. it probably heard that...








Offline X2Zero

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2019, 01:39:54 am »
Re. more audio tracks, I would settle for 12  :)

If resources are too limited, perhaps there could be the option of having extra mono only tracks. Or something like the existing 8 stereo tracks but with the possibility of re-configuring any or all of them as up to 16 mono tracks.

I could lose some MIDI tracks or possibly the pattern audio track. I wonder what kind of processor the Roland VS2480/2400 machines use.

Anyway, good luck with the project my friend!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 02:04:26 am by X2Zero »

mvstudio

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2019, 10:15:05 am »
Quote from: Benjah
I really respect Mike Acosta but I don't think he has a technical engineering perspective and as such so I don't take his comments too seriously.

Regardless of Mike's tech knowledge, Roland maxed out the machine but also had to make sure the machine stayed stable because if the MV became unstable it would give them (and the MV) a bad name. So it was partially a business decision.

I think there is room for enhancements, just dont expect to run 16 audio tracks + EQ, plus 2 MFX of which one is the Synth MFX and also use the full memory. That might be a problem  8)

Offline hangnef

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2019, 10:16:12 am »
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I really respect Mike Acosta but I don't think he has a technical engineering perspective and as such so I don't take his comments too seriously. An arpeggiator could be treated like an additional quantiser ie grid, swing, groove OR arpeggiator. That would be one way to do it.

"The code is written in C++, which makes things a LOT more difficult"

Why does C++ make it more difficult?

Totally agree on the arpeggiator, I don't think that would take a ton of resources to have that.  Things like more audio tracks might be too intensive, but I won't know until I try it.

C++ is more difficult because it's not straight function calls and data in the code, there are objects and methods (and I haven't decoded the layout of objects that the compiler used generates) and the decompiler doesn't handle that.  For example, I know from looking that it is most likely a method call, but it makes things a little more challenging.  Nothing insurmountable though.   :)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 10:18:48 am by hangnef »

Offline hangnef

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2019, 10:17:25 am »
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As it is, I'm worried that any day my MV is going to say "i'm sorry dave, i can't do that".
it's too powerful already. It needs features removed, not added. it probably heard that...

This is a good point, and if any time I'm starved for space in flash, I can imagine some functionality can go... for me it would be PixJam, V-Link, etc.

mvstudio

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2019, 10:22:40 am »
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As it is, I'm worried that any day my MV is going to say "i'm sorry dave, i can't do that".
it's too powerful already. It needs features removed, not added. it probably heard that...

This is a good point, and if any time I'm starved for space in flash, I can imagine some functionality can go... for me it would be PixJam, V-Link, etc.

Dropping PixJam and V-Link would be great. Turning the 8 stereo tracks to 16 mono also (probably not that easy?).
I think there is a reason (CPU wise) that the EQ on the channels can be turned on/off also.

Offline X2Zero

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2019, 10:44:19 am »
As audio tracks are just long time-stamped samples/audio phrases played from RAM and triggered by the transport, it doesn't strike me that resources would be that much strained if there were to be more. As the MV can handle 512 audio phrases and 9,999 samples plus 128 patches in a project (depending on size of RAM) it seems there is power to spare that often goes unused.

The mixer is a different thing. Might have to have an option to mix fewer MIDI parts to make space?

Polyphony of 64 notes is a limitation. 32 notes are priority assigned to the 8 audio tracks. So each track uses 4 notes? Presumably to allow for one level of undo.

Personally I find the note capacity of approx. 150,000 notes too small. It would be nice to see that increased. Even the ability to use a PS2 keyboard might come in handy.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 01:00:23 pm by X2Zero »

Offline Benjah

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2019, 03:02:18 pm »
"C++ is more difficult because it's not straight function calls and data in the code, there are objects and methods (and I haven't decoded the layout of objects that the compiler used generates) and the decompiler doesn't handle that.  For example, I know from looking that it is most likely a method call, but it makes things a little more challenging.  Nothing insurmountable though.   :)"

Oh I see, so you are reading assembly. I did some quick reading to help bring me up to speed and I see that C++ is a little curlier than straight C when it comes to assembly. Vtables, classes, etc. I've some small experience with C and assembler but this looks a step up in complexity. Super impressive work and good on you. 

Offline maxman

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2019, 04:18:58 am »
amazing work! keep us updated!

Offline hangnef

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2019, 06:32:23 am »
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As it is, I'm worried that any day my MV is going to say "i'm sorry dave, i can't do that".
it's too powerful already. It needs features removed, not added. it probably heard that...

This is a good point, and if any time I'm starved for space in flash, I can imagine some functionality can go... for me it would be PixJam, V-Link, etc.

Dropping PixJam and V-Link would be great. Turning the 8 stereo tracks to 16 mono also (probably not that easy?).
I think there is a reason (CPU wise) that the EQ on the channels can be turned on/off also.

This may be possible 8 stereo -> 16 mono, I will put that on my list, thanks!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 06:43:57 am by hangnef »

Offline hangnef

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2019, 06:39:47 am »
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Re. more audio tracks, I would settle for 12  :)

If resources are too limited, perhaps there could be the option of having extra mono only tracks. Or something like the existing 8 stereo tracks but with the possibility of re-configuring any or all of them as up to 16 mono tracks.

I could lose some MIDI tracks or possibly the pattern audio track. I wonder what kind of processor the Roland VS2480/2400 machines use.

Anyway, good luck with the project my friend!

VS series uses the same type of chip, a SH-3, although it is a 7709, which only runs at 80Mhz.  In that respect it has *less* power than the MV.  So, there may be some hope there!

Offline hangnef

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2019, 06:41:46 am »
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"C++ is more difficult because it's not straight function calls and data in the code, there are objects and methods (and I haven't decoded the layout of objects that the compiler used generates) and the decompiler doesn't handle that.  For example, I know from looking that it is most likely a method call, but it makes things a little more challenging.  Nothing insurmountable though.   :)"

Oh I see, so you are reading assembly. I did some quick reading to help bring me up to speed and I see that C++ is a little curlier than straight C when it comes to assembly. Vtables, classes, etc. I've some small experience with C and assembler but this looks a step up in complexity. Super impressive work and good on you.

Yup, nailed it.  There's all kinds of C++ metadata and layout to worry about (namespaces, vtables, methods, inheritance, etc).  For the purposes of changes, it will still be do-able, but it will just take a bit more work.  Grok'ing the Super-H instruction set is also a bit of a time drain, but I've been looking at it so much lately, it's becoming more familiar.

Offline keefaz

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2019, 06:46:00 am »
I am relatively new MV 8000 user but some ideas:

Simple features that could be cool
- export multiple samples at once (eg add save function in sample manager when you are able to select samples for deleting)
- remember the directory when you save a patch, so when saving new patch it brings you directly in this directory

More complex feature:
- Ability to edit more than one partial in a patch at once, for example set a lowpass filter on all partials

Offline hangnef

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2019, 06:47:14 am »
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As audio tracks are just long time-stamped samples/audio phrases played from RAM and triggered by the transport, it doesn't strike me that resources would be that much strained if there were to be more. As the MV can handle 512 audio phrases and 9,999 samples plus 128 patches in a project (depending on size of RAM) it seems there is power to spare that often goes unused.

The mixer is a different thing. Might have to have an option to mix fewer MIDI parts to make space?

Polyphony of 64 notes is a limitation. 32 notes are priority assigned to the 8 audio tracks. So each track uses 4 notes?

Personally I find the note capacity of approx. 150,000 notes too small. It would be nice to see that increased. Even the ability to use a PS2 keyboard might come in handy.

I'll add the note capacity to my list, and yeah I have no idea what the mixer looks like (yet).  Keyboard might be do-able, but we'd need a HW mod. 

Another bit of MV trivia, there is almost full support for PCMCIA in the code (as far as the HW), including a socket to connect a device to.  Looks like it was never utilized.

Offline hangnef

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Re: Possible enhancements/fixes for MV firmware
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2019, 06:48:23 am »
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I am relatively new MV 8000 user but some ideas:

Simple features that could be cool
- export multiple samples at once (eg add save function in sample manager when you are able to select samples for deleting)
- remember the directory when you save a patch, so when saving new patch it brings you directly in this directory

More complex feature:
- Ability to edit more than one partial in a patch at once, for example set a lowpass filter on all partials

Great ideas, especially the simple workflow ones.  thank you!

I've seen your more complex one mentioned a lot, being able to edit parameters for n partials at the same time, that is already on my list.   :)